Sonar scans show that 'UFO' at bottom of Baltic sea may actually be a top-secret Nazi anti-submarine defence

[Trudy]

• Object is raised about 10 to 13ft above seabed and curved at the sides like a mushroom
• World War II expert says object may be Nazi anti-submarine weapon
• Wire meshes could be used to baffle submarine radar and make them crash
  
• Area vital to German war machine
• Object has wire meshes - which could explain why dive team's equipment failed
• Divers say phones and some cameras switch off when close to the object

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2172503/Sonar-scans-...

[Bishop]

wow cool. watch iron sky, that was a funny film, but this definatly makes me think of it!

[Ullan]

Yes, I have to comment on this one...

1) there are very few surviving WWII submarine 'defenses', and all of them were either nets or underwater obstacles made of steel, designed to either halt the submarine or puncture its hull.

2) WWII submarines did not use radar underwater. The system was too new and too unreliable to be used while submerged. All submerged detection was done via acoustic means, meaning either ASDIC, sonar, or directional listening devices.

3) Wire mesh can, if properly configured, play merry havoc with radar. This is through a process known as 'backscattering' which confuses the radar with a variety of ghost returns. The principle of this is well understood these days, and is most often applied in air defense where canisters of aluminium strips (known as 'chaff') are jettisoned to confuse incoming radar guided missiles. This process /cannot/ in any way, shape or form disturb elctrical equipment since it does not do anything but provide a physical barrier through which radar waves cannot pass or are deflected away.

4) The preferred method of denying shipping lanes used by the Germans in WWII was deploying magnetic mines. These mines would be either air dropped or deployed by a ship, weighted down to lurk a few feet under the surface. Once a ship passed close enough, it would disturb the magpistol detonator through its magnetic field. All metallic vessels create, after all, their own minute magnetic field. This mine would then detonate, often under the keel of the ship. This explosion would either cripple the vessel, hole it, or break its keel.

5) There has never been any mention, in literature, research or historic record, of structures designed and built by the Germans on the seabed with intent of denying enemy submarines. Throughout the entire war, the kriegsmarine held as doctrine that the only defense against allied vessels, either surface or submerged, was the wolfpack.

6) In the early years of the war, the German war machine lacked the knowhow to construct /anything/ 60 feet deep under the surface of the sea. In the latter years, it had neither the knowhow, inclination or materials to do so.

7) The area has no more strategic importance to the Reich than any other province under its control. Ballbearings for the tanks (which the original article claims was the commodity being shipped) were mass produced in the Ruhr valley and could easily be produced elsewhere. It is not an involved process. German tanks were running out of engines, guns, road wheels and ammunition. There was never, nor would there ever be, a shortage of ball bearings. Supply of other war critical material would have taken priority over the shipping of ball bearings, especially considering the prohibitive cost (in materials and manpower) of building /under the sea/.

Any more experts on this matter? I don't know what it is, but I damned well know what it isn't. And it isn't a German submarine defense post. No such beast ever built, can we move on to something sensible now?

[Simmy]

I know most of you avoid facebook, but I have my personal reason 'to be there'. There is the 'Ocean Explorer - X Team' an official group in facebook where people give their opinions on this matter. There are all sort of crazy things, of course, but some people come up with very interesting hypothesis. Also, the Xteam and divers are always posting their personal opinions and updates on the second trip there. If anyone is interested, here's the group page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/178384865554985/

Ullan, I hope you don't mind if I post your comment about the anti-submarine hypothesis. I won't put your name (or mine!!!).
Of course I love the idea of being an UFO/USO, but I think it might be a pre stone age construction. I don't think it's a natural formation. We might never know for sure, especially if it is something really amazing.

[Ullan]

I don't mind at all.

[Simmy]

Thanks Ullan!

Lots of people there agree with your comment.

Apparently they are having even more problems with their equipment this time round.

[Simmy]

Dennis Åsberg (from the team that is exploring the 'Baltic Anomaly') just confirmed that five military ships were present at the second expedition. Could they still be there investigating the site? Unfortunately he didn't mention the nationality of these military ships.

 

[Trudy]

Thx Simmy & Ullan for this good conversation  with updates :-)  yes why the military intervention?

Ur both really upon good information!

Thx Bishop I don't know iron sky, i will sure look for it on utube ;-)

[Ullan]

Why the military presence? Potential liability.

At this point in time, not a lot is known about this 'anomaly' on the sea bed. All that's known is that it has a tendency to make equipment malfunction in close proximity, that it's made out of some sort of stone, and looks like it's artificial.

In a certain kind of mind, that translates into 'military applications'. Because the team has been very sketchy with accurate positioning, it's hard to tell if this thing is close to any major shipping lanes, or if it's still within territorial waters. Even if it isn't in international waters, allied ships can come and go as they please, and the area is frequently used for NATO exercises.

I think the presence of military vessels can be explained by following the usual flowchart of military intelligence decision making:

1) Can we get to it?

2) Do we know what it is?

3) If we don't know what it is, does someone else know?

4) If nobody knows what it is, could it be a military object? (insert that damnable NAZI sub trap article here)

5) Can it be completely ruled out that this is a military object?

6) If it cannot be completely ruled out that this object /is/ military, can it be completely ruled out that it is a weapon?

7) If no to the above, can we potentially exploit this?

Nobody will be so crass as to use the term 'UFO' or 'USO'. It will be referred to as 'technically challenging salvage with potential military applications'. Because it has been proven not to be a shipwreck, it cannot be safeguarded and it cannot be claimed. If other ships know it's around, then it's sadly a free for all.

In the most generous terms, we can choose to believe that the military ships were there to protect the dive team from potentially violent rivals seeking to exploit the discovery for their own. However, it may be just as likely that they're just waiting for a chance to send a team down themselves.

[Simmy]

This is a compilation of facts from their facebook page:

UPDATE: July 23, 2012 - The Ocean X team still does not know what the object is. It will take time to understand and analyze the data. The test results sample stone covered in magma substance, collected on last expedition, is not back yet. They managed to get a sample of the circle object (not in the location they wanted) with a jack hammer. The 2nd anomaly and the volcano-like anomaly were not investigated on this last expedition, due to the fact that some equipment malfunction and because the Baltic Sea is very murky with a lot of sediment. Also, diving time is short - maximum 20 minutes. The crew experienced some bad weather, but also had some good days. The Ocean X Team has stated that this current project is now limited on funds. The costs average approximately 7000 € per day! Sponsorship funding is now critical for further research expeditions.

• The following facts have been collected from the following sources: Quotes from Peter Lindberg and Dennis Asberg, and various news sources - see below links. (It is possible that some portions have also been taken from various other reputable websites. If there are any discrepancies, they should be listed in the comments section.) 

 

 FACTS

• Lies at approx. 90 meter depth in international waters between Sweden & Finland

• Perfectly round object made of a "rock-like" substance.

• Perfect dome shape.

• It has rounded sides with rugged edges (not smooth). "It's like someone has pinched the mountain at the edge, as if you have moulded together two molds, and it sticks out stones between the molds", said Stefan Hogeborn." (taken from article on Expressen.se)

• There is a wedge formed gap between the upper part (the circle) and the lower part (foundation/pillar). However, if the two parts are completely separated or if the upper part and the lower part are the same object has not been clarified“ (See image: http://www.oceanexplorer.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/image-object... )

• 200ft in Diameter. (60 meter)

• The object seems to be very very old, rare and something the crew has never seen before.

• The surface has cracks on it. There is some unidentifiable black material in the cracks

• 12m tall = 4 meter thick 60 m circular object supported on 8 m pillar (increases in thickness at top near the object)
• On one side of circle it's protruding approximately 4-6 meters from pillar

• circle is NOT connected to pillar, it separated. Looks like granite, surface of anomaly is made of different material than pillar.

• Looks like something has been very hot down there so that the stone has melted. Burnt-looking stones covered in a black film/soot on top of and surrounding object. A  normal stone from the surrounding area, which has burnt magma on it, was taken as a sample for analysis at Stockholm University

• Dennis said that a volcano is possible, however according to researchers, there has never been a volcano there.  A volcano does not look like what they've found because of the perfect form of it also because of the 90 degree angles
• Lying on top of the object are strange circular rock formations, like "fireplaces", of hard black "almost petrified" burnt looking stone each a few inches in diameter, like 4 or 5 pearls in a necklace. These stones are covered in something resembling soot.
• There are other, loose stones lying around as well

• Has a circular "Meringue" approx. 4 meters wide.  Surface not entirely smooth, some places the "cement" is cracking.the rock isn’t covered at all in silt, which should have typically occurred on the bottom of the sea. The Meringue appears to have construction lines and boxes drawn on it.

• Many 90 degree angles and straight lines: .5 - 1.5 meter high corridors within object. They appear to be like passages or walls approx. 1.5 meters in height and 3 meter wide, which are cut into the object. They are made of stone resembling sandstone.

• Has a circular dome shaped "Meringue" formation which sits directly on top of the 60 meter rock formation, located on edge on the right side of sonar scan. It appears to be covered in some type of hard cement-like substance, mineral deposit. Surface not entirely smooth, some places the "cement" is cracking.the rock isn’t covered at all in silt, which should have typically occurred on the bottom of the sea. After being chipped, the interior of object is black, like volcanic rock, almost petrified inside. Material is very hard, not simple stone, described as "preserved rock". Hogeborn describes the sense of carbonized material. The Meringue appears to have construction lines and boxes drawn on it. In the center, it has an oblong hole (about 5.9 to 9.8 inches (25 cm) wide), going into it. It's not known yet where it leads. No additional holes found
• It looks like there is a stair-like structure off of the circular object, however this hasn't been confirmed. (Peter confirmed the "staircase" reference was only an example to describe what he saw and that it is comprised of 8 steps with each step a 1 meter drop starting from the missing section on the left.)
• There is a second anomaly which appears to have "gothic-like window shaped forms" which is located 200 meters away.

• 1500 meters (3800ft) trail leading to object that starts out shallow, and progressively gets deeper until it reaches a depth of 30ft at the base of the object.
• Lying approx. 2 kilometers from circular object is a "Volcano-Like Mountain". It is a 50 meter high mountain rising off the seabed in the form of a classic volcano. It has a "smoking" a cloud of undefinable material out of the top. Currently, there is no known volcanic activity in the Baltic region.
• NOT World War related
• Issues which may be of significance:1) Electrical problems were experienced on the last expedition and also this time, but Peter is not sure if its related to anomaly, as he said it is normal for him. 2) Thermometer reading of -1 C at sea bottom, when it should have read +4 degrees C (this MAY or MAY NOT be relevant as the false reading could not be explained. It was thought to be a malfunction of equipment.)

 

 

News sources:http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_t25/object-team-baltic.... http://www.zmescience.com/research/baltic-sea-ufo-mystery-solved-43...

[Simmy]

This is what someone posted about the military ships:

"The logistical problems of it being a UFO from the military side...... 

"Oh no... Swedish treasure hunters have discovered a cement coated UFO.... what do we do to cover this up?"...... 

Well the conspiracy theorists would have us believe it will be gone by morning but would it really? It is the size of a 747 and weighs at least 30,000 tonnes and is at a depth of around 90 meters....... and suddenly even the military have a problem with covering this up. 

Problem 1..... The weight....... it is simply too large to lift out of the water without possibly bringing in one of the largest salvage teams in the world to crane it out and even then it may not be possible. You also have to work with a public contractor and not a military one and risk information leaks, plus covering up where they are and what they are doing for several days will be tricky. 

Problem 2 ...... The depth....... It lays too deep for divers to work for long periods or successfully. ROV's are usable but with the sediment so active to slight movements you are restricting their use to a crawl. To work down there doing anything that on the surface would take a lot of time, will take at least 10 or more times longer. Even if they were to cut this thing up into pieces, it would literally take months of diving to do and would require a ship (or ships) located and protecting the site for the duration. Not easy to cover up when it is an active waterway. 

Problem 3...... The size........ It is a concrete equivalent of a 747! First off, if you could raise it out of the water, what will you place it on? It will NOT fit on 99% of vessels in the world. The largest military vessel available is an Aircraft Carrier and I am not even sure if its too wide to fit on the deck of one of them. Even if it were possible (and it could support the weight) how on earth would they travel back to anywhere with it concealed? There will be some amateur photographer somewhere in the world seeing this huge object the size of an jumbo jet sitting under wraps on an aircraft carrier! Plus it would have to go to a port or probably a naval base to be hidden away! 
From there..... what can they do? It is simply too big to use any known aircraft as it is actually bigger than most aircraft and that doesn't even factor into the weight of it. Trains and trucks are completely ruled out because you simply cannot tow a 30,000 tonne circle the size of a 747 down a freeway without closing all 8 lanes and you would probably need dozens of trucks to pull it. A train is just too thin to carry it too, you would have to landscape 40% of the train route to make it able to pass through and the weight again is a factor. So it would HAVE to be cut up into smaller sections! 

So to conclude, if the military were to cover this up they would most likely have to stop any ships coming within 500 meters of the location and cut the item up into smaller transportable chunks that could take months of diving. Nothing else practically exists to remove it other than this method and I think the moment any military authority attempts to close down a location it is going to fuel conspiracies and raise questions amongst governments as to what that particular government is doing there and why they are not involved! And of course the longer they take diving and cutting it up, he higher the chance of them being found out. 

So if it WERE to be a UFO...... the conspiracy of keeping it all hushed up and quiet from the world may prove as near-impossible a task as it is for the OX team to work out what it is!"