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Brazilian air force says debris was not from Air France crash

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (CNN) -- The Brazilian air force said that debris picked up Thursday near where officials believe Air France Flight 447 crashed Monday into the Atlantic Ocean was not from the plane.

Image released by the Brazilian Air Force shows oil slicks in the water near a debris site.

1 of 3 "It has been verified that the material did not belong to the plane," Brigadier Ramon Borges Cardoso told reporters in Recife about the material recovered Thursday. "It is a pallet of wood that is utilized for transport. It is used in planes, but on this flight to Paris, there was no wooden pallet."

He added that oil slicks seen on the ocean were not from the plane, either, and that the quantity of oil exceeded the amount the plane would have carried.

"No material from the airplane was picked up," he said.

The announcement left open the question of whether other debris that had not yet been plucked from the ocean might be from the plane.

On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.

Helicopters had been lifting pieces from the water and dropping them on three naval vessels.

Brazilian Air Force planes spotted an oil slick and four debris fields Wednesday but rain and rough seas had kept searchers from plucking any of the debris from the water.

Officials said searchers had found objects in a circular 5-kilometer (3-mile) area, including one object with a diameter of 7 meters (23 feet) and 10 other objects, some of which were metallic, Brazilian Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral said.

The debris was found about 650 kilometers (400 miles) northeast of the Fernando de Noronha Islands, an archipelago 355 kilometers off the northeast coast of Brazil.

Eleven aircraft and five ships are engaged in the search, including airplanes from France and the United States.

Earlier Thursday, a public interfaith service was held for the 228 victims at a 200-year-old Catholic Church in downtown Rio. Joining family members were members of the Brazilian armed forces, who are leading the recovery effort.

"Whoever has faith, whoever believes in God, believes in the eternity of the soul," said Mauro Chavez, whose friend lost a daughter on the flight. "This means everything."

Investigators have not yet determined what caused the plane to crash. The flight data recorders have not been recovered, and the plane's crew did not send any messages indicating problems before the plane disappeared.

A Spanish pilot said he saw an "intense flash" in the area where Flight 447 came down off the coast of Brazil, while a Brazilian minister appeared to rule out a midair explosion.

Meanwhile, a report in France suggested the pilots were perhaps flying at the "wrong speed" for the violent thunderstorm they flew into early on Monday before the Airbus A330's systems failed.

Le Monde newspaper reported that Airbus was sending a warning to operators of A330 jets with new advice on flying in storms.

As several ships trawled the debris site in the Atlantic, Brazil's defense minister said a 20-kilometer (12-mile) oil slick near where the plane, en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, went down indicated it probably did not break up until it hit the water.

If true, that would rule out an in-flight explosion as the cause of the crash of Air France Flight 447, Defense Minister Nelson Jobim told reporters.

However, both pilots of an Air Comet flight from Lima, Peru, to Lisbon, Portugal, sent a written report on the bright flash they said they saw to Air France, Airbus and the Spanish civil aviation authority, the airline told CNN.

"Suddenly, we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, which followed a descending and vertical trajectory and which broke up in six seconds," the captain wrote.

Air Comet declined to identify the pilot's name but said he waited until landing to inform Air Comet management about what he saw. Air Comet then informed Spanish civil aviation authorities. The Air Comet co-pilot and a passenger aboard the same flight also saw the light.

But Robert Francis, former vice chairman of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, said the question of determining where a plane broke up "is a very difficult one to deal with." He told CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" that "there are lots of things that cause a plane to go out of control."

He added that extremely strong winds are not unusual near Brazil. Pilots who fly over that part of the world keep track of radar and "are very, very wary about the weather as they go back and forth down in that area."

Jobim said currents had strewn the debris widely and that the search area had been expanded to 300 square miles. Watch report on the struggle to find pieces of the plane »

The Airbus A330 went down about three hours after beginning what was to have been an 11-hour flight. No survivors have been found. Map of Flight AF 447's flight path »

The NTSB said Wednesday it has accepted an invitation from the French aviation accident investigation authority, the Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses, to aid in the investigation.

The aircraft's computer system did send about four minutes of automated messages indicating a loss of cabin pressure and an electrical failure, officials have said.

Some investigators have noted that the plane flew through a severe lightning storm. Foul play has not been ruled out.

Air France had received a bomb threat May 27 for a flight from Buenos Aires, Argentina, to Paris, sources in the Argentine military and police told CNN on Wednesday. Watch as experts question whether recovery is possible »

According to the officials, who had been briefed on the incident and declined to be identified because of the ongoing investigation, the Air France office in Buenos Aires received the threat from a man speaking Spanish.

Authorities checked the Boeing 777 and found nothing. Security was tightened during check-in for Flight 415, which left on time and without incident, the officials said.

Most of the people on Flight 447 came from Brazil, France and Germany. The remaining victims were from 29 other countries, including three passengers from the United States.

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Think about it, no SOS from the crew prior to disappearance, debris and oil proven not to belong to the Air France plane, and no black box any where, noting that they have homing devices. Do we still believe that that plane crushed into the ocean really. Reaaaally??
hmm, it's getting kind of interesting, and like I said before I'm from Brazil and from experience our government wouldn't lie about something this important so they may be telling the truth
Hi Rita, the page is on CNN.com but let me post it http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/04/plane.crash/index.... there. Cheers.
No debris yet recovered, does not mean that the debris initially spotted is not from flight AF447. It is possible, though unlikely, that they simply mistakenly identified debris from a shipping incident as debris from the flight.

Saying that, considering the automatic messages that have gone out, I'm quite convinced this plane went down with loss of all life aboard. The automatic systems will remain working even if there is nobody left to monitor them. Considering the messages spoke of loss of all electrical systems (this means auto pilot, navigation, radio, lighting and flight management computer) and loss of cabin pressure (indicating a breach of the plane's hull at some stage, or even an opened door mid-flight), there is little a pilot could have done to keep it aloft for the required two hours to get to Senegal, the closest nearby landmass. Standby instruments should still have worked, but without weather radar working, the pilots wouldn't have known where the thunderstorm was going to hit hardest. At the same time, loss of all navigational systems meant that if they got even slightly disoriented, they would have flown around blindly over the ocean, possibly veering well off their flightpath.

I'm intrigued, though, as to what can cause loss of all electrics /and/ cabin pressure failure. The only likely explanation I can think of is a lightning strike that shorted out the cargo door controls enough for them to open mid-flight.
My questions r simple.

1st - GPS ( They track dog/people n all the stuff they want)
2nd - Norad ( If u fart in the saara desert they know )
3rd - Pilots (Imo experienced pilots dont need instruments to fly)


.... not sure of what is going on but something is wrong in this
So far, the most plausible theory being toted about, not by myself but on international media websites, is a lightning strike. Now, if there was no lightning in the area, and the static dischargers on the the Airbus worked as they should, then there should not have been any lightning impact. At the same time, the loss of the electric system would not have affected the engines, as jet turbines are self perpetuating as long as they are fed enough fuel and air.

The most telling, in my opinion, is the automated messages which went on for three minutes before ceasing. No messages from the crew, just an automated message from the plane saying /all/ systems had failed and there was a loss of cabin pressure. Much of that message may have been transmitted while the transmitter was in freefall, yes, but that would mean the plane broke up in flight. If it crashed in one piece, then it was flying for three whole minutes with no instruments (pilots do need instruments to fly, erv, as visibility in a storm is not enough to judge position relative to the horizon and the plane is not necessarily flying in the direction it's facing given enough crosswind) and diminishing cabin pressure.

Either way, if it hit the ocean, there has to be debris, so where is it?

The GPS issue: the gps on the plane was a positioning system only, a 'dumb' system that does not transmit information back, only able to receive positioning data from the relevant satellites.

Passengers: Michelin, Thyssen-Krup and a Brazillian-Belgian prince... An interesting collection, but what would be the motivation to bring them down?

I'm still going with an accident on this one, caused by adverse weather.
I think something seriously is going on. And the govern and media knows it, but they are trying to cover up with lies and delays. They can find anything in the Ocean, either oil but can't find a big plane, come on. If the plane really crashed, now we could see by now some parts of the plane floating.Well we can't say for sure what really happened, we need to wait to see what is going to take place. There's a lot of evidence for abduction, let's see some evidences;

1. We are close to the first contact
2. There were important people on the plane
3. There were people from a lot of countries on board.
4. This could be a message for "dark cabal" that they are coming
5. They didn't find the plane yet
6. and so on, just think

but there's evidence that the dark cabal could do this for gettings people attention in this.
The plane disappeared on the ET disclousure day. but i still with the abduction evidence =)
A plane that crash whatever it crash they would found some debris com on get real! they can trace your dog know the colour of your underwear via satellite and they can't find a goddamn debris.hahahahahaha maybe these Myth buster clowns will debunk and found what happen lol...
The problem with ocean crashes is that a plane, despite what the in flight safety movie would have you believe, is not designed to float. If landed on a perfectly smooth body of water, it will remain floating for perhaps an hour or two. If it crashes into the ocean, it will sink like the proverbial stone. Yes, some bits of it will float better than others, especially the cushions and insulation, but that assumes there is a rupture in the hull for those things to float out. At that, they won't float more than a day or so until they become saturated with water and sink.

It's been days since the last contact. The only evidence that supports something odd is going on is the story of the man whose phone is still ringing when called. However, even his wife admits that he may simply have left it in the airport, seeing how he was on standby and given a seat at the last minute.

I share your hope that they are all still alive, and that soon they'll find an intact plane sitting somewhere in the middle of nowhere, with all people still aboard having these wonderful stories to tell about the family from beyond the stars that came to them...

But my sense of reality means that I must accept the more likely explanation that this plane has, as have others before it, crashed in the middle of a turbulent ocean, and sank to the bottom.

But here's for hoping.
If a person registered the .com address for this flight, that would seem to indicate that this flight is important - maybe not just an ordinary crash - and I don't mean that in the way you think. I'm guessing the person who registered the name actually has nothing to do with it as they say, and pulled that name out of their mind to use for a film (since they were a film director). Artists sometimes make the same art legitimately, not copying each other because all inspiration comes from consciousness that we all share and can tap into. If the name flight447 was already in that field of shared consciousness, it might have been because it was important in some way.

I could see how there wouldn't be any debris if the plane just crashed into the ocean and sank, without breaking up first. Would losing pressurization make a plane break up, or is it largely for the comfort of the people aboard? I don't know about planes, so I don't know if they float or sink (I know it looked like it floated on the Hudson, but maybe that was shallow? I don't know). I admit I thought the same thing when I heard the plane disappeared, that it actually physically disappeared, but we tend to think like that on these forums, so who knows. I'm with you, its a sad thing to think about, if those people are gone.

Quote: On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.

I have to say, its kind of strange this article says they found "an airplane seat" which Brazil then determined was not from that plane. That does lend credence to the black ops planting stuff - why the hell would an airplane seat otherwise be floating around that exact spot? Good for Brazil for sticking up for the truth about that.
well they find 2 bodies and some parts of the plane... back to reality lol but i still think they did this on purpose.
To answer your question, Honeybee:

A plane does not lose cabin pressure through any sort of mechanical failure. The cabin pressure is maintained by the structural integrity of the cabin itself, meaning that as long as no leaks occur and no action is taken to bleed off the pressure through mechanical means, the pressure will remain largely the same. A loss of cabin pressure warning occurs when there is sudden decompression and the pressure is escaping through some means. In almost all of the recorded cases, this was through a breach of the plane's fuselage. The pressure and stress on the airframe is normally so great that if a single leak occurs, it usually widens rapidly and the result is explosive decompression.

The two bodies and debris found today seems to confirm this: One was found still strapped to his seat (meaning he was either one of those minority passengers that keeps his seatbelt on the entire time or there was a turbulence warning) and a suitcase was also found. To me this indicates a sudden decompression (which also corresponds with the oxygen masks found) with several seats nearest to the fuselage breach ripped away.

This may also indicate that debris of the fuselage has struck the rest of the plane, possibly creating a fuel tank leak. This would indicate debris hit the wing tanks, as the central tanks on this particular type of Airbus would not breach unless the entire plan came apart in the middle. Considering the fuel was not floating around a large pile of debris, this can be discounted.

The last indications spoke of full electrical failure and loss of autopilot control. The autopilot shut down because the readouts of its three sensors, two of which are in the wings, were conflicting with one another. Possibly one wing sensor was damaged as it was struck. This may have led to a loss of hydraulic pressure (meaning the pilots would have been unable to use the control surfaces) and/or a loss of elevator control. In either case, the plane would have been doomed, as not a single passenger aircraft with full loss of hydraulic pressure has ever made a successful landing.

All this is a hypothesis, and my personal opinion based on current known information. I make no claims as to its veracity or accuracy.

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